While rebutting another post here on Lemmy, I ran into this. This says exactly what I want to say.
I am not a friend of Biden’s Administration. I think they drug their feet over a variety of things ranging from holding Trump and his goons accountable for January 6th through rulemaking on issues like OTC Birth Control and abortion rights, and yes, I think he’s too quick to please big business. But then I remember what the alternative is, and … well, disappointed in Biden or not, I’m voting for him. Because my wife is a Black bisexual goth woman, four strikes under Team Pepe’s tent. And I have my own strikes for marrying her as a White dude, and respecting her right to not have kids since she doesn’t want them is another strike against me. And I care about my Non-Christian, Gay, Transgender, and Minority friends, and will never willingly subject them to Team Pepe.
Biden may be better than Trump, but the system is fucked to make those the only two options. If he wins, after the election I’m going to actively criticize everything about the Democratic party I can so that we have a chance to get a progressive candidate in 2028. For now I’m giving him a pass so we don’t take another step towards fascism. Republicans are going to use absolutely everything they can to squeeze their orange dictator into office.
This is a very fair approach. Stop Fascism now, then right after the vote is won, start pushing the party Left.
I will almost certainly be voting for Biden, but why on Earth do you think we can push the DNC to the left? “Stop fascism now, then right after the vote is won, start pushing the party Left” has been the calling action for progressives and leftists for decades and the US has gotten more right-wing with time.
Why is this time any different? Is it finally time to realize that you cannot vote the DNC to the left at the scale required to make actual change?
With FPTP voting you literally don’t have a choice. Push for voting reforms first
That’s not the question I asked, haha. Voting reform would be nice, of course, but that doesn’t mean it will happen. That’s pure idealism. Voting reform has been pushed for for decades, how do you plan on actually getting voting reform through? Waiting for candidates to magically appear in the DNC and not just third party, and vote for them?
If you don’t get voting reform through, you don’t have much leverage at all for much else.
I asked how you’re getting it through, are you just saying the answer is to wait for the DNC to get around to it? Because I really hope that isn’t what you’re saying.
How are you getting anything else through? If you can push them to make any changes at all, this one should have top priority
Alright guys, get your Lemmy Political Retard bingo card out! Let’s see how many we can hit! I already got the system is fucked and are we really reduced to these choices?. Oh! I just got democrats need to pull their head out of their ass!
Okay. Vote for a literal Nazi or don’t vote for anyone and let a literal Nazi tale office, again.
Either way, I don’t really give a flying fuck what you get on your political bingo card, you enabled a literal fucking Nazi tale the office, again and I’ll think you’re an abject idiot so I guess we’ll all good.
Vote for a literal Nazi
I was going to vote for a third party who was neither a Nazi nor a geriatric buffoon.
you enabled a literal fucking Nazi tale the office
My guy, you need to sit down and look up what the Electoral College is. No single person is in any way remotely responsible for Donald Trump’s presidency, except maybe the 304 electoral college delegates who had the privilege of being in the majority in January of 2016.
Trying to blame individual voters in a system that deliberately disempowers individual voters is ignorant and foolish.
My guy, you need to sit down and look up what the electoral college is.
Hillary lost Michigan by 10k votes, one of the key states whose 16 electoral votes were a major train went despite Hillary winning the popular vote, that fat, orange, white supremacist won the election.
You say a single voter doesn’t matter but when you currently have 100k in Michigan voting ‘uncommited’ in the Democratic primary against the backdrop of you lost an entire god damn election by 10k, yeah maybe that single voter might actually be important. But you just keep that head in the sand and mumble how or can’t ever happen again.
Hillary lost Michigan by 10k votes
Hillary lost Michigan for the same reason Romney lost Michigan. She campaigned on a platform of international trade deals and domestic deindustrialization. Folks in the Midwest consistently hate that.
Biden’s running a ten-point approval gap relative to Gretchen Whitmer, doing all the annoying toxic shit Hillary did. If he loses Michigan in November, that’s why.
You say a single voter doesn’t matter but when you currently have 100k in Michigan voting ‘uncommited’ in the Democratic primary
100k is a lot more than a single voter. And this is an entirely unforced error on Biden’s part. He’s continuing to sponsor a nightmarish genocide in Palestine - one that virtually nobody in his party actually supports and which has poisoned huge swaths of the independent electorate against his presidency.
That’s not something a “single voter” can fix. That’s a direct consequence of Biden’s own foreign policy. The only voter who can save Joe Biden from a loss in Michigan is Joe Biden.
Gotta stop lumping all the players in one side together. Biden is not doing anything by himself and neither is the fat orange. Gotta pull out the microscope to see who is who and where and why rather than hitting on a single name. The house and senate are the major string pulling yoyos in everything that comes out of washington
Biden is not doing anything by himself and neither is the fat orange.
That is a big part of the problem. If Biden’s camp was full of Green New Deal Dems and peaceniks and Justice Party economic reformers, I’d have a lot easier time supporting him.
Instead, he’s surrounded himself with corporate flacks, banksters, MIC ghouls, and evangelicals, hoping to peel off the moderate Republican wing of the conservative party one more time.
The house and senate are the major string pulling yoyos in everything that comes out of washington
I would say that the donors are at the end of the strings, while House and Senate simply dance to their tunes. And when you consider how much influence a guy like Sam Bankman Fried had with “blue state” senators like Gillibrand and senior white house advisers like Steve Ricchetti, I gotta say I’m not thrilled to see the direction this party went in his first four years.
Even before you get to the Palestinian Genocide or the continued US blockade of Cuban ports or the migrant prisons lining the US border or the rapid domestic increase in carbon emissions under a President who claimed to acknowledge climate change, it seems like liberals cannot bring themselves to see the naked mismanagement, graft, and cowardice of the current President.
Boeing airliners are literally falling out of the sky and Biden’s FAA is still dragging its heels, for fear of upsetting one of the nation’s most well-financed lobbying teams. No federal prosecution of the Trump Administration is scheduled to move forward before November.
By any standard, this Presidency has been a failure.
By any standard, this Presidency has been a failure.
Yep so let’s help elect an actual fascist that says he’ll finish the job in Gaza, has never seen a corrupt dollar that he didn’t want deposited in his bank account, wants to shoot protestors, extrajudicially executed antifa in the Pacific Northwest with federal goons, wants to be a dictator “only on day one”, and has already attempted to overthrow the government because he didn’t like the way an election turned out.
Also, nevermind the fact that in a global pandemic the fucking guy wanted us to inject disinfectant, said the disease would go away like magic, had store shelves so empty we were wiping our asses with our hands, and had his administration steal crucial supplies from frontline workers to auction off around the country.
Also set aside that he will let Russia steamroll Ukraine and will probably try to get the US out of NATO.
And that he’s been indicted with something like 90 criminal counts and a dozen or more civil cases, some of which have already rendered judgements against him.
And nevermind the non-stop craziness of the general population when he was originally elected in 2016 who while flying his flag ran over protestors with their cars, screamed at people on airlines, went to pizza places with weaponry demanding answers.
Biden didn’t singlehandedly turn everything around from it being a country on active fire in four years, so let’s put Trump back in to finish the job both abroad and here at home.
We’ll be a nice smoldering pile of rubble by next election season.
– 💩🔥🇺🇸
Yep so let’s help elect an actual fascist
Again, I refer you to the Electoral College.
By any standard, this Presidency has been a failure.
https://www.edf.org/blog/2022/08/12/biggest-thing-congress-has-ever-done-address-climate-change
The US’s forecast 2030 emissions of more than 5bn metric tonnes is significantly higher than the 1.9bn metric tonnes it was allocated by the analysts under a 1.5C-compatible fair share model.
This, combined with our largest trading partners - from China to Mexico/Canada to Saudi Arabia - all doing even worse, means a marginal decrease in emissions domestically will have no hope of meeting the 1.5C target for 2030. We are already cresting the 2C horizon this year and accelerating our rate of warming.
The infrastructure act has been far too little and far too late, even setting aside how much of it is being squandered to appease profit-hungry American industrialists, more concerned with competing against global imports than curbing the global warming rate.
I find myself having to repeat this over and over.
Consider the context of the OP.
Would Trump be better on this front?
I had a much better time with a Trump/Pelosi government than I’m having with a Biden/Johnson government. If nothing else, watching him get impeached again would be more entertaining than arguing over how much nerve gas to send to the Israelis.
I asked if Trump would be better on climate and you attempted a pivot but you’re not gonna bullshit me.
You’re not serious so I’m out.
I asked if Trump would be better on climate
If you want to go hard on the numbers, Trump’s pandemic was the best thing to happen to the climate since the early Obama Administration investment in green energy.
Joe Biden has seen nothing but emissions growth since he took office. The benefits of the Infrastructure Act remain speculative at best. But shutting down air travel for months and curtailing business activity nationally for the better part of two years? Possibly the greatest act of Degrowth committed in the United States since the Civil War.
You’re not serious so I’m out.
Democrats have all been on board with Crypto investments and AI expansion, both of which have been voracious consumers of domestic energy and water reserves. Republicans consistently tank the Tech sector while in office.
If you care about climate change, bankrupting Silicon Valley would be a great place to start.
Democrats should get over themselves and push through ranked choice voting in each state they control. Republicans gaining control of the nation is a existential threat, and we should be using every tool to keep them out. This means getting rid of FPTP voting and the spoiler effect inherent in it.
OP, you seem very concerned with how people vote. Have you worked to start an electoral reform campaign in your state? you can entirely solve the spoiler effect that you’re concerned with! What are you waiting for?
They would never do that. Then you wouldn’t vote Democrat anymore.
I’ll be one of the first to admit, I don’t like Biden. But, if you need to be convinced that he’s better than Trump, you’re an absolute buffoon!! Trump is worse than the shit you stepped on, on your walk. Trump is the worst thing to ever happen to the American presidency. He’s the closest we’ll get to Adolf Hitler and he relishes in that. He thinks it makes him “a bad boy” or someone moving against the curve…and he’s right, he’s moving against the curve. He’s moving against it in 4 straight lines that will bend consecutively in 90° angles to the right. My point is, TRUMP IS NAZI SCUM WHO’S WORSE THAN THE SHIT ON YOUR HEEL
Biden is actively supporting Nazi style Genocide right now.
But not the figurative one. Literal Nazi Genocide.
This is flat-out misinformation. But that’s allowed here apparently. Still needs to be called out though.
Imagine being a Genocide denier.
And you think Trump would be doing…what, exactly? Let’s not forget Trump Heights
Israel recently did the biggest land grab in like 30 years under Joe Biden. Not under Donald Trump. Once again there is no difference except Biden probably being worse.
Trump is a massive moron but he is not stupid enough to escalate into World War 3.
In fact he has already proven he is not that stupid because after the Suleimani assasination Iran retaliated. And Trump then cut off the escalation.
An Abrupt Move That Stunned Aides: Inside Trump’s Aborted Attack on Iran
But barely three hours later, Mr. Trump had changed his mind. Without consulting his vice president, secretary of state or national security adviser, he reversed himself and, with ships readying missiles and airplanes already in the skies, told the Pentagon to call off the airstrikes with only 10 minutes to go. When Vice President Mike Pence and other officials returned to the White House for what they expected would be a long night of monitoring a military operation, they were stunned to learn the attack was off.
That about-face, so typically impulsive, instinctive and removed from any process, proved a decision point for a president who has often threatened to “totally destroy” enemies but at the same time has promised to extricate the United States from Middle East wars. It revealed a commander in chief more cautious than critics have assumed, yet underscored the limited options in a confrontation he had set in motion.
I mean, we all get it. But Biden is worse? What makes you possibly think trump will make smarter and more humane decisions for the Palestinian people?
Have you… Have you seen what Biden has done over the last 6 months? We’re talking literal Holocaust Nazi concentration camp extermination of Palestinians.
Dude… everyone knows you’re a right wing troll here. Why do you keep up with this bullshit. You’re not pro Palestine, you’re just anti-Biden. The proof lies in the fact that nearly everthing you say here is for the purpose of shitting on him.
Just stop man.
Sorry are you the guy that claims israel is not committing Genocide?
You’re ignoring the big elephant in the room. This whole “lesser evilism” schtick that the bootlicker Dems have been relying on since 2016? It’s inevitably going to hit rock-bottom - and soon, too.
Tell me you’re not a student of history without telling me you’re not a student of history.
Regardless of the two party systems race to the bottom, 2016 saw the formal introduction of the Pied Piper strategy by the DNC during Hillarys campaign. Formally boosting the other parties evil factor by supporting trump and making the “vote for us, we arent them” the whole schtick.
This whole “lesser evilism” schtick that the bootlicker Dems have been relying on since 2016?
Since 1948 at least.
The key word in the title is Democrats. Leave those of us that are not Democrats or Republicans out of the conversation.
Hey, pal, I didn’t write the headline, so don’t give me crap about it. But here’s a fact you miss with your “not democrat or republican” nonsense. Do you claim to care about Non-Christian, Gay, Transgender, or Minority people? Then you must vote for the Democrat. Because come November, one of two parties will win the election. That’s just how the American system is designed currently, and it’s going to take LOTS of hard work to fix it, and there are gonna be LOTS of people who will fight you tooth and nail to stop that from happening. But until it happens, either a Democrat or a Republican will win that seat, like one has every year from 1860 until the present. That’s even more likely if the only time you’re pushing for an alternative is during the General Election and not, say, during the Primary or for local elections.
And to remind you, the two men who have a lock on that office in January consist of:
- A man who is admittedly old, who has a speech impediment and a history of engaging mouth before brain throughout his adult lifespan, who is a bit stuck in the past and thinks that solutions that worked on problems back in 1980 will work on problems today, and who is too friendly with Israel as a nation to recognise that Israel’s leader is more akin to his opponent than anyone on his side of the political aisle.
- A shithead who is only 3 years younger than the other guy, who doesn’t have a speech impediment to explain away his word salads, who once famously bragged that he could take any woman in the world he wanted despite her thoughts on the matter because ‘he’s a star’ and ‘he’s allowed to do that’, who mocked and denigrated disabled people willingly and openly, who quoted Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini freely and pridefully, and who encouraged shitheads to run down Americans protesting shithead policies, and who has a plan to double down on all that bullshit come DAY ONE and he promises to be a dictator “only for a day!” if he wins.
One of those two will be in office come January. Nobody else. Your third party or no-vote won’t change that. If you stay home or vote third party in 2025, you should be fucking ashamed of yourself if you even begin to think you’re a friend to any of the issues the Left stands for.
I’ll start with democrats are not left. They are to the right of people like Reagan and Nixon. Your party doesn’t give a fuck about Non-Christian, Gay, Transgender, or Minority people either, talking like they do then doing nothing to protect them makes them no different than their Republican counterparts. Using marginalized people as human shields to defend shitty politicians and their shitty policies doesn’t make you an ally, it makes you an enemy of their progress and keeps them further subjugated.
Cant change a system if no one has the balls to actually challenge it and refuse to keep propping it up.
Biden is currently pulling us into World War 3 by supporting Genocide. He is actively pushing for Republican style immigration laws.
At this point there is no difference between Biden or Trump.
If you think Trump is going to stop Israel from killing Palestinians or make immigration easier for brown people, you are very mistaken.
Sooooo is Biden doing any of those things?
???
Trump would be focused on destroying our institutions rather than other countries. There is definitely a difference.
Would you rather have the mass murder millions of innocent brown people in foreign countries than have negative consequences for the precious white Americans?
Well, the problem is it isn’t “either/or.” It’s “both or just one.”
Trump will be worse for Palestine, believe it or not. I mean, that isn’t hard to believe, it’s just hard to swallow that those are the choices. But it’s the one we’re stuck with.
Oh that is simply not true. Trump CAN’T be worse for Palestine.
Biden has done every single thing Netanyahu asked him to. After six months of Genocide there are still not a single weapons restriction and Biden is rushing as many weapons as he can to israel. And Biden condones every single one of the Genocidal war crimes openly. And vetoes any condemnation of israel.
The worst Trump can do is the same as Biden.
Trump would be more inclined to escalate.
In fact, Trump has said Israel should escalate. I believe the phrase he used was “finish the job”.
Trump says Israel has to get war in Gaza over ‘fast’ and warns it is ‘losing the PR war’
“Get it over with and let’s get back to peace and stop killing people. And that’s a very simple statement,” Trump said. “They have to get it done. Get it over with and get it over with fast because we have to – you have to get back to normalcy and peace.”
“They’re releasing the most heinous, most horrible tapes of buildings falling down. And people are imagining there’s a lot of people in those buildings, or people in those buildings, and they don’t like it,” he added. “They’re losing the PR war. They’re losing it big. But they’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.”
That’s a naive thing to think. Beyond naive.
Biden is actually kind of concerned with trying to appear like he cares. He kinda has to. It’s for selfish reasons, of course, he is still a politician. But Democratic voters aren’t just rank-n-file voters like republicans. And they’re not all wanting the most cruel thing to happen. Republicans voters almost universally are.
The US supports Israel. Like, the country. The machinery. Not Biden or trump or even Bernie, in that hypothetical situation. It’s a massive moneyed machine that probably just one dude couldn’t decide to stop—even if that person were president.
I’d vote for another country too, for another order, if I could. But we can’t. You’re voting for genocide or genocide. But one of those genocides comes with a slew of other problems for vulnerable communities at home. And that same one comes with a petulant fascist with harm on the brain and a rabid fan base wanting to tear trans people limb from limb and stick women back in the 1940s and just open up he earth and suck out whatever regardless of the consequences. We have minutes until midnight on the climate emergency. Even a slow descent into turmoil is better than throwing everything we can into the fires.
Being a one-issue voter, especially in 2024, is so incredibly shortsighted and…I’m sorry, but selfish. You’re willing to throw MORE Palestinians, trans people, women, the environment all into the shitpile for, I’m sorry, your personal sense of purity.
We all get it, what is happening in Palestine is beyond horrifying. It’s genocide. No argument, there. But even a president who has to make a few speeches and small demands on how Israel is “starting to concern” or whatever gestures Biden has to make for optics, is better than a vindictive, bloodthirsty bigot who will, believe it or not, be more cruel if and when he can. That shouldn’t be hard to believe, but it is hard to wrap your head around when the topic is supporting genocide.
Dude what? Even past hardcore Republicans like George Bush have been far stronger against israel than Biden.
This utter delusion that Biden can’t do anything to stop israel is some Blue Maga mental gymnastics.
Biden is ideologically motivated to support this Genocide. He is willing to throw away the entire election for it.
There is literally a video of Trump bragging to random Jews in Mar a Lago that he got them more Palestinian land during his presidency. Trump’s only criticisms have been delusions that “October 7th wouldn’t have happened because Hamas wouldn’t dare piss me off” and telling Israelis “You guys have to fix the optics of what you’re doing because you are losing public support.” He doesn’t give a fuck about the genocide - he just wants it done more quietly so fewer people notice and get upset.
It’s really scary to me, as a trans person with many trans friends, how eager much of the far left is to write us off as sacrifices. I guess my life doesn’t matter to you because I’m a “precious white American” (and this disingenuous horseshit totally ignores the fact that POC trans Americans will undoubtedly be the most affected).
But hey, at least I can feel as I draw my last tortured breaths in a christo-fascist deathcamp some solace in knowing that online tankies got to feel satisfaction in helping punish Biden by helping elect an honest-to-god fascist.
Rather condone the Genocide of millions of innocents than advocate for change you would prefer not taking any risk and having them certainly murdered with support of the Biden regime?
It’s pretty astounding to me that people do not consider Biden a Christo-Fascist yet. As he as actively trying to reach some Christian Zionist goals
Jezuz fuck, having a black-and-white worldview must be so freeing; not having to clutter your beautiful mind with things like FUCKING COMPLEXITY
What do you think about the Nazi’s? Do you know who won the German election in 1933? What about the Spanish civil war? Surely you don’t have a black and white opinion on the Nazi’s like just saying “they are evil for committing Genocide” right?
Godwin’d in 1.
Hahaha no he’s not. Hahahahaha. Leftist stupidity strikes again
