Finland’s results in the European election bucked a continent-wide trend of rising support for parties on the outer fringe of right-wing politics, with the Left Alliance and the National Coalition winning big at the expense of the nationalist Finns Party.
Leftist leader Li Andersson received more votes than any other candidate has ever received in a European election.
Guys.
Finn here.
42 % turnout.
We still have a massive problem with rising nationalism and general right-wing rhetoric, don’t kid yourselves. It’s just that those morons don’t think EU elections matter.
Always good to have some insider info
ok but can you share the trick to keep the dicks from voting?
We could have a lot of nice things (like you’ve already got!) if we could, uh, drive the bus…
Obviously you’re much better informed about this than me, who has never even been to Europe.
I can’t help but wonder why only Finnish morons would avoid voting, and not morons from elsewhere.
As in… why does this dynamic only apply to Finnland?
As in… why does this dynamic only apply to Finnland?
I don’t think I even implied it did.
The Finns are all too aware of what far-right government means, they’re living next to it, and it’s threatening their very existence.
Congratulations on the Fins voting against barbarism! Here’s to hoping the upcoming election here in the USA follows suit, and continues to reject reactionary nationalism.
The Finns are all too aware of what far-right government means, they’re living next to it
They’re living in it. The existing Finnish government was already on a hard-right tilt over the last ten years, and this election has resulted in a countercyclical backlash.
This isn’t a bunch of Finns saying “We don’t want to be like Russia.” It’s a bunch of Finns saying the National Coalition / True Finns suck fucking ass for cannibalizing their public sector in order to inflate their police sectors in an anti-migrant freak out.
The country has dipped into a recession following a slew of big cuts to social spending and economic lag caused by the war. And people justifiably don’t like that shit.
Oh, I didn’t know this! Thank you for that information. I hope the new government can materiality improve the lives of the public.
Fingers crossed. But it wouldn’t be the first time the ratchet of politics blocked left-wing reforms while turning effortlessly to the right.
This also gives me hope that after a couple of years of far-right governance, these people will end up losing and more centrist politicians will be in charge again. Making this shit temporary in Europe.
Some comments have pointed out that Finland already had a right-wing government going into this election, and I’ll admit that I was entirely unaware of this.
Again, I congratulate the Finnish public on rejecting right-wing and authoritarian politics, especially after having to suffer under it at home.
Again, I congratulate the Finnish public on rejecting right-wing and authoritarian politics, especially after having to suffer under it at home.
If only
They also have a (lesser than the neighbor) far-right government
The USA first needs a serious left wing party for that to be possible.
God I’m sick of explaining this.
If everyone voted for the left-most party, and the right had no votes, the right would move towards the left, pushing the dems along with them.
Not surprisingly, when the country votes left your politics moves left.
Comments like this are the reason why the dems are not the bastion of leftism you so desire.
Mind if I ask what you are basing this on? Because the experience I’m having in my country tells me that would probably just reinforce the status quo, and then the far-right would have a huge increase.
In my country the center-“left” soc-dems (who have been leaning more and more liberal) were in power since 2014, with a majority on the left; in 2022 that party got a majority of votes, and the rest of the left loss a lot of votes, but the right was still in minority. This has essentially resulted in them being able to keep doing whatever they want and what they’ve always done and not keep their promises because they know a bunch of people always vote for them anyway because “it’s them or the right wins!”. Then in late 2023 there was a corruption scandal that resulted in us having new elections early this year where the far right saw unprecedented growth, the “center”-right party won the elections, and there is now a majority right in parliament. At no point during these 10 years did our country turn further left; the right certainly didn’t.
My point is, based on that, I would guess that having liberals (who are the ones in charge of the Dems) in power so long with a majority would just result in them consolidating power, the rest of the left to be pushed out, and eventually for the far right to see a renewed growth.
The real solution would either be for everyone to vote for a new different left-wing party (if we’re already talking about convincing “everyone” to vote for Dems, why not dream a little higher?), or turn to mutual aid and grassroots movements. And a party that wins elections will almost certainly never want to change the electoral system because they benefit from it the most; again, the best hope for that might be getting behind one party whose mission purpose is exactly to turn away from a 2 party system.
You seem to supporting the concept though. More people didn’t keep voting left, they voted center/left which sounds like has been moving right, so things stayed the same/went right. Who you vote for matters too - we have multiple opportunities to vote between “dems”. To me OPs comment is a simple truism - we can’t move left by not electing leftist individuals (and parties by extension). Any other strategy is some pie in the sky game theory.
Mind if I ask what you are basing this on?
The overton window.
If the political opinions are reduced to a spectum running from left to right, then in a two party system the major parties will sit immediately to either side of the mid-way point, because they want to seduce as many swing voters as possible from the other side.
As in, the conservative party may have conservative dreams but their policies need to be far enough to the left to actually win an election, so they will push up against the progressive party.
If suddenly more voters vote progressive (the conservative party loses badly), the conservative party needs to adjust their policy settings further to the left.
As the conservative party’s policies move to the left, the progressive party will start losing voters to them unless they also move further to the left.
Removed by mod
Good.
I got maybe another 20 or so years of life left to me, I really don’t want to see my world turn into some fascist authoritarian hell-scape where everything is ruled from Moscow or Beijing. So please, fellow homosapiens: don’t let that happen, mmkay?
If it does though, you down to fight?
Nice try, FBI.
Nice. I’ll see you there, G. ✊🏼
Does fighting online count?
Good to see a country buck the conservative trend going around lately.
Well I don’t think we really have, honestly.
It’s just that the inbred racists who are all too common don’t think these elections mattered.
Yeah. 42% turnout.
What I hear is that some European countries are leaning right on over-immigration and are voting on the basis of that issue.
Countries that aren’t going through that, aren’t voting right.
France and Germany were, so they went right. Portugal and Finland weren’t, so they went left.
In Finland that trick has gone already. Right wing ran immigration support to the ground so far right got votes with their campaign of “cars are burning and hand grenades are flying” (they’re not).
So hopefully this election is a first in the counter wave to that.
What did the right wing make of Russia’s stunts re: dumping migrants on the border? Where do they stand on putin etc? Thanks for insights from Finland, always wanted to visit.
They created a panic. Migration officials said that we’re not in a crisis, the capacity and logistics to help people across the border are good. The right wing government made a huge media hassle that the border needs to close and have been finding ways to continue it indefinitely without a real solution to make the situation workable. Now they’re trying to pass the evaluating of each migrant to the border control workers (they’re protesting) instead of professionals.
The far right party has many connections to Russia (and China) but have shifted their communication to hide that. They’ve voted against sanctions towards Russia but their main nazi has done doctorate work on Ukraine and seems conflicted on his allegiances.
appreciate the details!
Russia was (I don’t know the current status) playing games on the border by dumping thousands of migrants at once - https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-says-thousands-migrants-seek-enter-via-russia-2024-02-20/
Unfortunately it’s the opposite here in France and I’m devastated.
Congratulations to the Finns!!!
Well hopefully your population is intelligent enough to see through the lies after the populists take in to office. It’s usually when their incompetence shines right through as they’ll just start making excuses and keep blaming the opposition for their failures. It’s also the point where they usually start breaking most of the promises they made during the elections or while they where in the opposition.
The French also have history of not so peaceful protests so the people in the ivory towers need to take that in to account.
Well that didn’t work out for Germany. However, maybe the most recent scandals of some German AFD representatives did prevent them from receiving even more votes. Nevertheless, the AFD hasn’t received any recognition for its beneficial contributions in the parliament thus far. Typically, it involves strange remarks or overall misconduct. But their overall propaganda seems to be still very effective.
I like Li Andersson’s three major goals. Seriously… How could this be wrong for certain people. I don’t get it
to end poverty, to make the world more equal and to solve the climate crisis
Fuc*ing leftits with their positive, political goals. Disgusting /s
BSW taking 6% out of box (way more in the East) got to count for something.
You see them as positive goals, other people see them as advantages to loose. To foreigners, to climate protection, to „lazy“ people. They have a privilege they want to keep.
Thanks for the hopeful message.
I have no doubt the French far-right would fail miserably like every other EU far-right government, and I wouldn’t bother too much in other circumstances but those suckers are Putin’s friends and the last thing I want to see happening is the end of Ukraine’s support.
Macron just dismissed the government, and we’re up for new elections in two weeks. There’s a good chance that for the first time in the French Republic History we don’t have a single leftist voice at the government.
We are famous for our protests indeed, but with a far-right government cops will just feel allowed to do their worst, and we might reach chaotic levels of violence.
Anyway, thanks again for your message. We’re not there yet and I need to blow off some steam.
The French also have history of not so peaceful protests so the people in the ivory towers need to take that in to account.
They do, which is why they’ve invested so heavily in state police forces and surveillance technologies. France runs tight behind the UK in terms of over-policing of potential dissidents (re: poc, college kids, community activists) and cribs a lot of their techniques from the US and Israel.
Oh no they didn’t copy from the UK, it’s a thing going back straight to Vichy France. Have a look at the biography of this character.
Woof.
From the same country that gave us Linux, inspired Middle Earth’s Quenya (noble Elvish) language, and showed us how to properly manage prison reform.
My question: why are the Finnish always so awesome?
P.S. Contrary to what one failed former conspiracy-addled political “leader” suggested, the Finnish do not rake their forests.
When all people are cared for, no one turns bigot. This becomes a vertuous circle. “Simple as that”. Meanwhile France worked hard to release the kraken
all people are cared for
This. This is the part we need to learn.
Can you send emissaries to train us heathens how to not be dicks? I want to be happy like Finns, and the people who want to be rich instead (temporarily, as the next traffic accident will ruin them) we can help with psychotherapy.
Well, despite all the good work and against common sense, surprisingly many still turn bigot. But much less so, luckily.
Seems like some people just can’t be content and happy, no matter what. And you have to direct that anger or bitterness or whatever to something. Too often it’s hate.
I think it really goes back through history. Finland was a possession of Sweden and then Russia. The nobility would have spoken either of those languages depending on who was in charge, and ethnic Finns were essentially pawns for the larger powers, and the finnish language wasn’t even written down much.
This changed when Russia started to crack down on Finnish culture, leading to a surge in pro-Finnish sentiment. People even changed their names from Swedish versions to finnish versions, and went from using “Christian” names to names from finnish mythology or culture. Actually, it’s somewhat similar to how black Americans changed naming conventions in the Civil rights era. The very concept of finnish-ness was somewhat of a working class concept. This, combined with a similar law of jante type belief meant there was and is much more of a focus on the collective good than in other countries.
During the Russian revolution, a Civil War erupted between left wing and right wing, with the right wing wanting a German aristocratic monarchy over finland. The right wing actually won, but it was very short lived because Germany lost WW1 right aftwards, and a liberal democracy was formed. Finland was super poor, but started to build itself up as it’s own country.
When WW2 rolled around, most people are familiar with the Winter War where they held their ground against a Russian invasion. Most people aren’t as familiar with the Continuation War against Russia, where they (with the support of germany) continued to fight against Russia, or the Lapland war, where they actually had to fight against Germany to kick them out of the country. The Germans actually used scorched earth on finland as they retreated, knowing they were losing WW2.
After all of that, a huge swath of finland was destroyed by the Germans, or annexed by the Russians, leaving many homeless. Finland had to provide for those people, so homes were rebuilt rapidly throughout the country. Since they were in the soviet sphere of influence, but they weren’t a Warsaw pact country, they didn’t get any assistance from the eastern bloc (and they actually had to pay reparations as an axis country). They were also not included in the Marshall plan that helped provide recovery to western Europe.
They survived as a people by taking care of each other, and they are very proud of that. If you go to a Finnish museum, next to works of art and science, you’ll see things like the baby box, or other displays about the establishment of the welfare state. Many countries have a welfare system, but treat it like a dirty secret, while they celebrate what they were able to accomplish.
One last thing I think is really cool is that they are not afraid to experiment with policies. Many governments will do little trials of policy here and there, but not many go to the point of actually doing scientifically rigorous studies.
I feel extremely informed, thank you!
Allow me to gas Finland up a bit more. They’re higher than Germany in terms of innovation (triadic patents per capita), they have semi-democratically owned grocery stores with 90% of the country being a member/co-owner, they have 60% union density and a Ghent system (like Sweden, unlike Norway), their housing prices were among the few in Europe falling - after the government started their Housing First initiative and built social housing for the poor, their education system being so good (despite being relaxed unlike e.g. Singapore) and state-funded instead of private… life is pretty good in Finland.
the Finnish do not rake their forests
but they have turned it into a running gag
Seems like it would be a great quip when someone’s being an ass. “Go rake a forest.”
But i did vacuum clean it the other day
“Record result” doesn’t even begin to describe how hard they shattered their previous number. They went from 7% last election to 17%. Left Alliance has never seen numbers like this as far as I know.
Yep. From a minor party to second place, with a small campaign and core leftism program. Li has been the straight shooter calling bullshit out for years and suddenly it worked. Absolutely amazing
The Swedish green party also kicked down our far right party down the ranks.
Now this concerns me.
Why would the Nazis losing be bad?
Because econazis are winning.
This warms my hearth.
I’m actual a member of a small leftwing party in my own country and (having lived 2 decades abroad and seen other political realities and even been a member of the Green Party in Britain) have concluded they suffer exactly from the problem that well entrenched leadership are not “straight shooters calling bullshit out”, and instead their style of discourse “avoids giving offense”, sounding far too much (IMHO) like the mainstream supposedly-left party we have here and leaving an impression about the party (to those who aren’t tribalists predisposed to support and believe in anything the party’s leadership says) that they’re just another group looking to suckle from the tit of the state.
I think the problem in my party is due to the leadership being a very uniform group of 30-something well-off scions of the Middle Class (which, in a country that until the revolution of 74 that overthrew Fascism had very little Middle class, shows that they’re hardly coming “from the people”) who got to the leadership mainly due to nepotism (often being the sons and daughters of party founders) or by going to the same shcools and being similar to each other and talking the same talk as the rest - i.e. cronysm - and who, from the explanations I got from one of the party’s members of parliament for certain anti-Democratic practices inside the party, see themselves as superior to the rest of the members of the party (which probably explains why they listen - if at all - very little to the rest of the party and seem unable to change even after losing between half and two thirds of the vote).
So I hope I can use the example of the Left in Finland to internally push for a kind of change in leadership and discourse, towards one much more broadly representative of people in this country and who is willing to talk about how parts of the machine are broken and need replacing (and do so anchored on a proactivelly tought through vision for the future, rather than the mere reactivelly “complain about things blowing up after they blew up” so common in my country) rather than the current mild-mannered, frustrating reactive discourse that amounts to little more than “the car is fine, it’s just some some screws that need tightenning”.
“straight shooters calling bullshit out”, and instead their style of discourse “avoids giving offense”,
I want to highlight that Andersson is still respectful and not offensive. The callouts are done honestly
Totally agree that leftism in a global sense needs to shift communication towards a more active and hopeful future. Everyone else is just sticking to the status quo or worse.
Let me guess, Portugal and Livre?
No.
Livre are Liberals cosplaying as Lefties.
In a genuine fight for Equality you don’t go around segregating people by identities and deeming some more deserving to fight for than others because of the identity you think that they belong to: you fight for everybody who is being treated unfairly, ideally going after that which is causing greatest pain first.
Split people by the genetics they were born with and treating them differently based on that is not the path to Equality and Fairness, it’s just a different kind of Inequality and Unfairness, so those doing such dividing and segregated treatment are either fighting for something else - say, “everybody should be free to do what they want with consenting adults”, which is fine, but at times incompatible with the core leftwing principle of “the best possible life for the greatest number”, especially when it comes to money (were the latter principle would go against the Freedom of some to accumulate as much wealth as they want), so that’s not Leftwing, that’s just Liberalism - or they’re tribalist fad followers, who don’t think when it comes to politics.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Livre end up turning out to be just as much a bunch of self-serving assholes seeking “jobs for the boys” by ridding a fashionable political strain imported from elsewhere as Portugal’s newest “Green Party” cosplayers, PAN, turned out to be.
I’ll read your comment in more detail later but who were you talking about then?
O Bloco.
If you look at the leadership they’re incredibly uniform (almost all 30-somethings, from well off origins, either there because mommy or daddy were middle class leftwingers during the Fascist days - which I can respect, whilst at the same time thinking says nothing about their childrens’ qualities or values - or because they’re mates with such people). Unsurprisingly they all sound like betinhos (soft spoken middle-class types constantly signaling their social status in language, dress and manners) and do not at all come across as competent or even with any breadth of life experience (plenty never experienced or did anything other than Politics, a characteristic they share with people of the same age in the two mainstream political parties).
I mean, it’s fine to be like that, it’s just not fine when a politicial party which is supposed to fight for and represent all kinds of people is so narrow in the original social strata, age, life experience and universities frequented (including actually having frequented one) of those who lead it, and hence their way of thinking and the kind of things they’re aware of, not to mention that highly uniform social environments are invariably the result of people selecting each other by similarity and friendship (i.e. cronyism) not merit, since merit comes in all shapes, forms, genders, ages and origins and hence selection by it naturally yields a lot more variety in a group.
(There are a ton of blindspots for any group of people who are highly uniform and that problem due to the uniformity in the leadership of the Block has been easilly exploited by the mainstream “leftwing” party and even the far right in Portugal in the last 2 elections)
As somebody who spent his young adult years in The Netherlands, I have very different values in terms of openness and much stricter Democratic expectations than the shit that dominates the party, were I’ve seen my share of systematic undemocratic behaviours and treating mechanisms meant for free and democratic choice including actual votes as nothing more than “formalities”. Also, having lived and been in politics in Britain I have a keen ability to detect the parroting of the performative “leftwing” ideas from the fake leftwing wing parties there (LibDems, New Labour, equivalent to the Democrats in the US) which oh-so-often seems to be repeated by local lefties who being too unwordly to understand the context and trying to follow the fashion of the “left” in those countries, parrot neoliberal stuff they read in English-language social media.
It’s very frustrating because I originally thought they were a thinking Left.
I’m not sure I agree
For one Bloco’s majority of votes comes from exactly the opposite of what you say they are. I.e. lower class and less educated people.
I don’t think they have the image of being “betinhos”, quite the opposite. Majority of Betos vote IL, Agrobetos somehow vote chega, and betos who lean left and actually care about social issues now vote Livre. Some of them also voted PAN but fortunately less and less.
The view I have of Bloco is that they are more on the woke warrior side and a bit too much sometimes. The whole, I am more knowledgeable than you is very present in IL and in a way also in Rui Tavares.
Catarina Martins is one of the more empathetic politicians we have in Portugal atm. The Mortagua sisters may have a well off background but they have proven their work countless times and many times outside of Bloco. Marisa Matias and José Gusmão are both almost 50 and no where close to your description of “elite”.
But I guess your opinion is just as valid. For what it’s worth I actually joined them very recently but so far haven’t seen much of anything (apart from disorganization).
Thqnk you Finland!!!
Being next in line to be invaded by Russia helps keep the insane voices down I guess.
Most people I know are afraid of foreigners stealing their peace and property and enslave their daughters and shit like this.
It’s people that prosper so long they don’t know any real threat and keep imagining one. Queue the far right stoking those fears.
The fins got some real problems and it unifies them.
Maybe two things; people see what the far right is currently messing up in the Finnish government, and Russia (& China) focused on Germany and France so the election was cleaner. Sweden’s Left also had a huge jump
Putin will be happy, as now Andersson will be replaced in the finnish parliament by a Putin loyalist Johannes Yrttiaho, as Andersson can’t sit on both parliaments by law.
If you didn’t know, there are many Putin loyalists in the finnish Left Alliance, working as an internal opposition faction against Andersson’s faction.
One of the rules is to assume every group is infiltrated by fascists
Good for the Left Alliance.
be more like norway and finland and less like sweden
Sweden’s Left got a new seat as well
Hey finns, will you take me in again, like you did during Erasmus? Pretty please? I do like saunas, lakes, woods, Salmiakki and metal so I should fit right in, right?
Just one question before we let you in: how do you pronounce “sauna”?
Like a normal person, so like it’s written.
Ok, you are welcome, just show this post on the border control and they give you Finnish passport
Sauna Perkele.
Also did Erasmus there, but I’m not a fan of salmiakki so I hope that my swearing will compensate for that.
You are allowed by law to replace salmiakki with koskenkorva.
Will you accept a fan of mämmi?
No! Thats disgusting, go away.
Banya.
I might have believed you until you went too far claiming you like Salmiakki.
I’m moving to Finland.
I hope you know Finnish already or are really good with languages because it’s completely unrecognizable to people who speak most other European languages. My dad went to Helsinki in the 90s and said the only signs he could recognize were ones which had international logos like McDonald’s.
This is (according to a search) “I love you” in Finnish: minä rakastan sinua.
But yes, it sounds like a very nice place to live.
But yes, it sounds like a very nice place to live.
It gets a bit cold in the winter.
Cold is fine, you just wear more clothes. The darkness from November to February is worse. Nothing really fixes that.
I just looked at the temperatures and honestly, it doesn’t get much colder than it gets here in Indiana and it doesn’t get as horribly hot either.
Besides, give it 10 years and climate change will make the Baltic coast feel like the French Riviera.
Winter is the nice season in Finland, the other one is swamp season.
I’m familiar with the language, I just don’t know it. But Finland is bilingual, as there is also a lot of
NorwegianSwedish spoken and many signs are inNorwegianSwedish too. I have less issues understandingNorwegianSwedish. Myself I’m Dutch, I’ve been to Finland several times. I’m not even going to try to learn the language, it’s really hard. But in major cities they speak English.Edit: I didn’t remember correctly the second language
A finnish person here. Our second language is swedish not norwegian :-). Aside from that, it is true that many signs etc. are written in both finnish and swedish. People working in public sector are also supposed to know swedish.
Outside of few swedish speaking areas you are better off using english as it’s more widely spoken by the general population.
Ah thanks for the correction. It has been a while since I’ve been there, I clearly didn’t remember correctly.
Is it not Swedish, rather than Norwegian?
I fixed it, my bad :)
My god I want to emigrate over there so bad.
I’m quite curious if this was due to leftwing parties changing the way they talk and going back to politics anchored on principles or if it was something else.
In my own country (Portugal) mainstream supposedly-left are soft neolibs, then there are the Communists (sadly mere slogan parroters invariably putting Party above Principle and hence amongst other things supporters of Putin) and the “thinking” Left who are quite out of touch middle class scions of the middle class (well intended-ish but societally ignorant people who were born with a silver spoon on their mouths and live in a very local - in a country were half the population is emigrated, almost none have actually lived abroad - bubble of relative priviledge) whose style of presentation is the same as the politicians from the “supposedly-left mainstream party” and who have copied the liberal take on Equality (from America, a country that pretty much only has hard-right and far-right, so it’s hardly a leftwing “equality for all” take) rather than the principled, identity-agnostic take on Equality. Also they obcess about the far-right, in practice helping them grow (it’s a well known phenomenon in Propanda that if a Party is constantly talked about by others, even if only to criticise them, they get perceived as important and end up growing). Unsurprisingly the entire mainstream is losing votes just like everywhere else, the alternative Left has recently collapsed to half the size it one was and only the far right is growing (which in my country is one ultra-neolib party and a fascist one).
It would be great if the Left in Finland had found a solution for this that’s culturally-agnostic and hence applies all over Europe directly, rather than be dependent on the kind of cultural factors that take the 4 decades or so these things usually take to get to Portugal from Northern Europe.
Finland has two major left parties: SDP (social democratic party), which is the more center leaning party. Then there is left-wing party, which is more to left. The more left one won now big, and it is uncommon for them to be one of the big winners.
We also have communist party here, and liberal party, but those are really small. Communist got 2 828 votes in total.
