Israel ignored an order from the U.N.’s top court to halt its military offensive in southern Gaza after South Africa accused Israel of genocide. Russia, too, has ignored the court’s call for it to end its invasion of Ukraine.
There is zero logical reason to treat Russia and Israel differently.
stopped short of ordering a cease-fire for the enclave
Hmm, but what does it mean to halt a military offensive without having a cease-fire?
While I don’t understand that bit, this part here I do.
the court doesn’t have a police force to enforce its orders.
I think in general we do need to have these international courts examining these situations and making rulings about it. It provides necessary justification to individual countries to back Palestine and condemn Israel, especially while Oct 7 remains unforgotten and unsolved.
You’re wrong. There’s one reason (whether it’s logical or not, I’m not discussing it):
The US supports one but not the other one.
Edit: Seeing the downvotes, the message might have been misunderstood: what I’m saying is that if we’re treating them differently it is only because the US supports Israel so Netanyahu the nazi gets a free pass.
idk if it matters, but there is the nuance that russia and Ukraine were friends once and russia backstabbed them, while palestine and israel never were friends and it’s a smoldering conflict with 80 years of atrocities on both sides, that now escalated into this new dimension of a shitshow.
Also this goal post moving back when we talk about something happening today is stupid. If the Ottoman had a rule that they live together then we can assume that has nothing to do with the UK Shipping Jewish and Zionist from Europe to peaceful country.
First sucide bomber was Christian, First terrorists group is what today called IDF. People from these generation still alive today. And this why this is not “Jew vs Arab” this is “Zionist vs Palestinians”
The both sides argument ignores the difference in scale. Palestinian atrocities are on the scale or killing a family or blowing up a bus, while Israeli atrocities are more on the massacring a village or blowing up a 100 member family to oblivion level.
And somehow Israel gets military aid in the exact same US bill that allocated Ukraine’s aid and nobody’s head exploded: no politician, no mainstream journalists…
Here’s one reason for you to digest: hamas refuses to recognize Israel as a country and would rather Israel be totally destroyed than recognize it in some way to have peace.
You can’t say Ukraine refuses to recognize russia as a country and it is a fact that Ukraine would stop fighting the moment all russians fuck off back to russia. Can you say hamas will stop fighting even if Israel finallt took its grubby hands off the West Bank and Gaza? hah, no.
There is also the other reason that russia is doing both the brutality of Israel and the unrestrained suicidal fanaticism of hamas on Ukraine. You can bothsides Israel-hamas to some extent, not Ukraine.
They say they accept the premise of the two state solution. You using the same logic of fear used to justify maintaining apartheid in south africa. People used to say if it’s abolished black would take revenge on white people
The only time Israel started hostilities that lead to war was in the 6 day war, which was a preemptive strike after Egyptian provocation. Every other time they were attacked first.
As i mentionned before zionist plan of colonization was pretty clear from the zinoist leaders statements themselvesso the 1948 was the preemptive war. Egypt didn’t plan to start a war, the six president of israel admited that
The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.
In contrary Nasser was proposing to resurrect and expand the EIMAC which was created to monitor ceasefires, investigate incidents, and facilitate communication between Israel and Egypt, the proposal was rejected by Israel a sign that it Israel didn’t want to use diplomacy. 2 days before Nasser was going to meet with american diplomats and politicians to easy tension, israel did it’s surprise attack.
If the countries around them hadn’t invaded them like 7 times…yea…they’d have more goodwill and be less paranoid…now they don’t even trust hamas to run Gaza, because they can’t be sure they won’t pull another Oct 7th stunt again with foreign help.
People of the 3 Abrahamic religions was living side by side till zionists who lived in other part of the world. The colonial project couldn’t happen without the british colonial power and the Nazi germany collaboration . Just check out the haavara agreement.
The first prime minister of Israel said this before arabs decided to block the zionism colonial project : “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine"
Not to mention that gaza and the west bank wasn’t colonized after the 1948 loss but during the six day war where arabs never intended to retaliate for their previous loss
I mean… I’d like to use as a counterpoint that Israel claimed to support a state of Palestine, basically right up until the British left.
Then suddenly things got a lot more ‘Eretz Yisrael’.
I don’t doubt that Hamas might say they’re fine with the existence of Israel so long as they have no alternative, and their idea of Israel is probably different than Israel’s current borders, just like Bibi and his assholes have been trying to mumble noncommittal noises while they tried to bulldozer their way to the Jordan.
Anything that pushes the settlers out of the West Bank and keeps them out of Gaza should be a strong enough signal to be met by a serious and verifiable commitment by Palestine not to do any dodgy mass rearmament on Israel’s borders. From there, things could only get better if that deal holds, but yea, bibi isn’t capable of that, he’s a coward who will sink Israel.
Until this round of war it was Israel’s official position for decades. The big hold up on the two state solution was that Hamas in particular has never agreed to recognise Israel.
Long-serving Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu in 2015 rejected a Palestinian state.[11] He again rejected a Palestinian state in June 2023.[12][13]
And while at it ELI5 how is the approval of more and more Jewish settlements in the West Bank and building more and more walls and checkpoints is advancing this two state solution?
Israel said that they would refuse the plaestinian autority to control gaza if hamas was destroyed. The palestinian autority who constantly arresting armed resistance leaders. So your claim is just BS
There is zero logical reason to treat Russia and Israel differently.
politics has never been logical.
The article on the post links to another one, https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-palestinians-court-ceasefire-01d093d21a1eadaa31af5708cf1cbf38
From that,
Hmm, but what does it mean to halt a military offensive without having a cease-fire?
While I don’t understand that bit, this part here I do.
I think in general we do need to have these international courts examining these situations and making rulings about it. It provides necessary justification to individual countries to back Palestine and condemn Israel, especially while Oct 7 remains unforgotten and unsolved.
You’re wrong. There’s one reason (whether it’s logical or not, I’m not discussing it):
The US supports one but not the other one.
Edit: Seeing the downvotes, the message might have been misunderstood: what I’m saying is that if we’re treating them differently it is only because the US supports Israel so Netanyahu the nazi gets a free pass.
idk if it matters, but there is the nuance that russia and Ukraine were friends once and russia backstabbed them, while palestine and israel never were friends and it’s a smoldering conflict with 80 years of atrocities on both sides, that now escalated into this new dimension of a shitshow.
People of all religions used to coexist in the area before the Brits declared they were in charge and segregation was a good idea.
Should have had a flag…
No flag, no country, those are the rules I just made up!
The Brits? Try the Third Crusade.
Jews did not have equal rights in the Jerusalem Sanjak until the Ottoman Reform Edict of 1856.
Before that you had things like the 1847 ethnic cleansing of Jews in Jerusalem, or the 1834 looting of Safed.
That’s not true, but you said it confidently so people upvoted it without source…
Also this goal post moving back when we talk about something happening today is stupid. If the Ottoman had a rule that they live together then we can assume that has nothing to do with the UK Shipping Jewish and Zionist from Europe to peaceful country.
First sucide bomber was Christian, First terrorists group is what today called IDF. People from these generation still alive today. And this why this is not “Jew vs Arab” this is “Zionist vs Palestinians”
The both sides argument ignores the difference in scale. Palestinian atrocities are on the scale or killing a family or blowing up a bus, while Israeli atrocities are more on the massacring a village or blowing up a 100 member family to oblivion level.
You understand that’s only from lack of resources? It’s not from lack of trying?
it hardly matters if you blow up 1 or 100 it’s both murder. i’m not willing to argue who the better murderers are. it’s pretty obvious.
There remains one important difference - Oct 7
And somehow Israel gets military aid in the exact same US bill that allocated Ukraine’s aid and nobody’s head exploded: no politician, no mainstream journalists…
Politics under the guise of religious differences?
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Hamas isn’t a territory. Gaza is. Israel is invading Gaza.
I don’t think it broke international law, well, outside of the civilian casualties.
But… It should have. We need something so you can’t do stupid crap like this without some authorization, ie the UN has to sanction it somehow.
Which basically makes it impossible in most cases, but it should be.
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Are the UN and the ICJ saying so in this case?
Here’s one reason for you to digest: hamas refuses to recognize Israel as a country and would rather Israel be totally destroyed than recognize it in some way to have peace.
You can’t say Ukraine refuses to recognize russia as a country and it is a fact that Ukraine would stop fighting the moment all russians fuck off back to russia. Can you say hamas will stop fighting even if Israel finallt took its grubby hands off the West Bank and Gaza? hah, no.
There is also the other reason that russia is doing both the brutality of Israel and the unrestrained suicidal fanaticism of hamas on Ukraine. You can bothsides Israel-hamas to some extent, not Ukraine.
They say they accept the premise of the two state solution. You using the same logic of fear used to justify maintaining apartheid in south africa. People used to say if it’s abolished black would take revenge on white people
hamas? I gotta see this, where? I’ll use google translate.
PS: nvm, I found this https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438 I wouldn’t take it at face value, but it would help if true…at least this guy is still alive.
But you trust israel wanting peace when everything indicate otherwise
The only time Israel started hostilities that lead to war was in the 6 day war, which was a preemptive strike after Egyptian provocation. Every other time they were attacked first.
As i mentionned before zionist plan of colonization was pretty clear from the zinoist leaders statements themselvesso the 1948 was the preemptive war. Egypt didn’t plan to start a war, the six president of israel admited that
In contrary Nasser was proposing to resurrect and expand the EIMAC which was created to monitor ceasefires, investigate incidents, and facilitate communication between Israel and Egypt, the proposal was rejected by Israel a sign that it Israel didn’t want to use diplomacy. 2 days before Nasser was going to meet with american diplomats and politicians to easy tension, israel did it’s surprise attack.
If the countries around them hadn’t invaded them like 7 times…yea…they’d have more goodwill and be less paranoid…now they don’t even trust hamas to run Gaza, because they can’t be sure they won’t pull another Oct 7th stunt again with foreign help.
People of the 3 Abrahamic religions was living side by side till zionists who lived in other part of the world. The colonial project couldn’t happen without the british colonial power and the Nazi germany collaboration . Just check out the haavara agreement.
The first prime minister of Israel said this before arabs decided to block the zionism colonial project : “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine"
Not to mention that gaza and the west bank wasn’t colonized after the 1948 loss but during the six day war where arabs never intended to retaliate for their previous loss
Yes and let’s not ignore the UK and USA secret support during that period.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_relating_to_the_Six-Day_War
https://news.antiwar.com/2024/04/25/hamas-official-says-group-willing-to-disarm-for-two-state-solution/
Exactly the fucking point. They didn’t want to take South Africa’s desires at face value either.
I mean… I’d like to use as a counterpoint that Israel claimed to support a state of Palestine, basically right up until the British left.
Then suddenly things got a lot more ‘Eretz Yisrael’.
I don’t doubt that Hamas might say they’re fine with the existence of Israel so long as they have no alternative, and their idea of Israel is probably different than Israel’s current borders, just like Bibi and his assholes have been trying to mumble noncommittal noises while they tried to bulldozer their way to the Jordan.
Anything that pushes the settlers out of the West Bank and keeps them out of Gaza should be a strong enough signal to be met by a serious and verifiable commitment by Palestine not to do any dodgy mass rearmament on Israel’s borders. From there, things could only get better if that deal holds, but yea, bibi isn’t capable of that, he’s a coward who will sink Israel.
100%
We need to build a wall around bibi and his settlers, and Hamas, and let them not be our problem anymore, bibi hijacked the whole course of events.
I really miss Barak, but anybody serious about peace learned the lesson of Rabin.
There are no settlers in Gaza. There are in the west bank, but fuck those cunts.
Is Israel recognising Palestine as a country?
Until this round of war it was Israel’s official position for decades. The big hold up on the two state solution was that Hamas in particular has never agreed to recognise Israel.
Oh please check your sources,
And while at it ELI5 how is the approval of more and more Jewish settlements in the West Bank and building more and more walls and checkpoints is advancing this two state solution?
Israel said that they would refuse the plaestinian autority to control gaza if hamas was destroyed. The palestinian autority who constantly arresting armed resistance leaders. So your claim is just BS
Post 7th Oct I refuse to recognise Israel as a country. It’s clearly a terrorist state hellbent on the genocide of the Palestinians.
It needs to go.
By need to go you do you mean that you want a one state solution?
good luck o7