That’s a big part of the problem. Ethnostates and theocracies are invariably oppressive towards any inhabitants who are not of the dominant ethnicity or religion. Israel is no exception and shouldn’t be treated as one.
the right of self determination for the Jewish people in the form of a democratic state
An Apartheid state, which a formalized ethnostate by definition is, is inherently anti democratic and opposed to the self determination of everyone except the ruling people. Self determination through oppression of others is never and will never be legitimate.
I’d definitely be against a hypothetical Palestinian ethnostate, but that doesn’t exist so it doesn’t really seem relevant. We’re discussing an ethnostate that actually does exist, which sucks. Can we keep on that topic?
I’m not sure I understand the question. Are you under the false impression that an ethnostate is a state in which only one group is allowed to exist and all others are killed on sight?
The 20% of non-Jewish citizens of Israel are second-class citizens living under the oppressive rule of an ethnostate which explicitly primarily serves the interests of their ethno-religious ruling class.
I don’t know anything about the structure of the government of Denmark or Poland but I will say that I don’t have a particularly positive view of their societies or peoples from what little I have seen to judge them by. What is the point of this latest non-sequitur? Are you capable of speaking on the topic at hand or do you only ever reply with left field references to other existing things or hypothetical things that do not exist?
I’m trying to make clear to you, that Israel is judged and attacked harshly for policies other western democratic nation states have as well regarding nationality and citizenship for example. At the same time Israel has a much higher proportion of citizens, that are not members of the dominant group than other nation states.
Non Jewish citizens have the same rights as Jews. There is discrimination and that needs to be addressed. However non Jews can be found throughout the institutions of the state of Israel, including university professors, army generals and Supreme Court members.
I hope you’re also against Palestinian nationalism then
That’s not comparable and you know it. Nationalism without a nation is an ambition. Ethno-nationalism while in control of a nation containing other peoples is oppression and, in extreme cases like the South Africa of the past and present day Israel, Apartheid.
But to answer the question you thought you asked: yes, I am against the violently theocratic government philosophy of Hamas.
Also compare the number of Arabs with Israeli citizenship to the number of Jews with PA citizenship.
Arab doesn’t equal Palestinian and Palestinian doesn’t equal Arab. To conflate the two is bigotry and ignorance.
They by definition CAN’T be because Palestine doesn’t have any citizens. Because it’s occupied territory denied nationhood by its occupiers, Israel.
Do you think a Palestinian state in the West Bank would accept Jewish settlers as citizens?
Jewish people in general? Yes. Jewish (or Christian, or Muslim etc) SETTLERS stealing their land on behalf of an occupying force, though? That’s another kettle of ballgames entirely.
“Settling” land already owned by someone else is colonialism and theft, not peaceful coexistence.
Sure. I hope you’re also against Palestinian nationalism then.
“If you’re opposed to minority rule, then I hope you’re also opposed to majority rule.” What? Simply give everyone in the region equal voting rights, as is their right as human beings, and the resulting state would be a Palestinian one.
That’s a big part of the problem. Ethnostates and theocracies are invariably oppressive towards any inhabitants who are not of the dominant ethnicity or religion. Israel is no exception and shouldn’t be treated as one.
An Apartheid state, which a formalized ethnostate by definition is, is inherently anti democratic and opposed to the self determination of everyone except the ruling people. Self determination through oppression of others is never and will never be legitimate.
Sure. I hope you’re also against Palestinian nationalism then.
Also compare the number of Arabs with Israeli citizenship to the number of Jews with PA citizenship.
I’d definitely be against a hypothetical Palestinian ethnostate, but that doesn’t exist so it doesn’t really seem relevant. We’re discussing an ethnostate that actually does exist, which sucks. Can we keep on that topic?
How do you explain the 20% non Jewish citizens of Israel?
I’m not sure I understand the question. Are you under the false impression that an ethnostate is a state in which only one group is allowed to exist and all others are killed on sight?
The 20% of non-Jewish citizens of Israel are second-class citizens living under the oppressive rule of an ethnostate which explicitly primarily serves the interests of their ethno-religious ruling class.
How is that different from Denmark or Poland?
I don’t know anything about the structure of the government of Denmark or Poland but I will say that I don’t have a particularly positive view of their societies or peoples from what little I have seen to judge them by. What is the point of this latest non-sequitur? Are you capable of speaking on the topic at hand or do you only ever reply with left field references to other existing things or hypothetical things that do not exist?
I’m trying to make clear to you, that Israel is judged and attacked harshly for policies other western democratic nation states have as well regarding nationality and citizenship for example. At the same time Israel has a much higher proportion of citizens, that are not members of the dominant group than other nation states.
Non Jewish citizens have the same rights as Jews. There is discrimination and that needs to be addressed. However non Jews can be found throughout the institutions of the state of Israel, including university professors, army generals and Supreme Court members.
Bullshit
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution
That’s not comparable and you know it. Nationalism without a nation is an ambition. Ethno-nationalism while in control of a nation containing other peoples is oppression and, in extreme cases like the South Africa of the past and present day Israel, Apartheid.
But to answer the question you thought you asked: yes, I am against the violently theocratic government philosophy of Hamas.
Arab doesn’t equal Palestinian and Palestinian doesn’t equal Arab. To conflate the two is bigotry and ignorance.
Do you support that there are no Jewish citizens of the Palestinian Authority?
That’s not true. Especially not when you count the settlers living on stolen land inside the West Bank and planning to do the same in Gaza.
They are not citizens. Do you think a Palestinian state in the West Bank would accept Jewish settlers as citizens?
At the moment the Palestinian Authority has the death penalty on anyone selling land to Jews.
They by definition CAN’T be because Palestine doesn’t have any citizens. Because it’s occupied territory denied nationhood by its occupiers, Israel.
Jewish people in general? Yes. Jewish (or Christian, or Muslim etc) SETTLERS stealing their land on behalf of an occupying force, though? That’s another kettle of ballgames entirely.
“Settling” land already owned by someone else is colonialism and theft, not peaceful coexistence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_passport
It’s not Palestinian citizenship when it’s still Israel who determines who is eligible.
“If you’re opposed to minority rule, then I hope you’re also opposed to majority rule.” What? Simply give everyone in the region equal voting rights, as is their right as human beings, and the resulting state would be a Palestinian one.
Well from you it’s only demonization and delegitimization of Israel paired with a gross misrepresentation of international humanitarian law.