Trump Demands Biden Remove Ad of Him Calling Dead Soldiers ‘Suckers’ and ‘Losers’ - The former president said only a “psycho” or a “very stupid person” would’ve made such statements.

  • CapeWearingAeroplane@sopuli.xyz
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    5 months ago

    This take just baffles me… you can disapprove of a war, and still respect people willing to put their life on the line for something they believe is right. Even in war, opposing sides have a long history of showing their enemy a certain amount of personal respect, even though they clearly disagree about something to the point of killing each other over it.

    Your take is just condescending and unempathetic. You can respect someone for sacrificing themselves without agreeing with them about what they’re sacrificing themselves for. Regardless, it shouldn’t be hard to see how someone fighting to depose an infamously brutal dictator (Iraq) or a fundamentalist regime that stones women for wanting a divorce (Afghanistan) can believe that they are doing something good.

    • masquenox@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      and still respect people willing to put their life on the line for something they believe is right

      Apply your bullshit logic to the Waffen-SS or the KKK, then. Go on… I’ll be waiting for you right here.

      Your take is just condescending and unempathetic.

      Really, genius? I guess this must be the first time you’ve ever confronted the idea that not all people who experience warfare are mindless zombies willing to die for whatever cause the rich people (or you) told them they should die for? You and the rest of the shitlib hive mind on here are hysterically cramming onto the jingoism train simply to own Trump without realizing what a self-own that is turning out to be.

      infamously brutal dictator (Iraq)

      Are you talking about the “infamously brutal dictator” in Iraq that the US helped into power? That the US helped to deploy chemical weapons in his war with Iran? That one?

      a fundamentalist regime that stones women for wanting

      Are you talking about the “fundamentalist regime” that only exists thanks to the massive support the US provided to these very same fundamentalists back in the 80s together with their fundamentalist allies in Pakistan? That “fundamentalist regime?”

      Good job, hero - you’ve highlighted why we should all be asking, “What was in it for them?”

      • CapeWearingAeroplane@sopuli.xyz
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        5 months ago

        Ok, I’ll try to make this simple for you: I can hold respect for a combatant that puts their life on the line in an effort to do something they believe is making the world a better place, rather than for personal gain.

        The KKK is immediately excluded, because there was/is little to no sacrifice being made by those lynching others. The same goes for SS soldiers running a concentration camp. I was quite clear in pointing out that what demands respect is the act of putting your life on the line to protect or help others.

        As for who put those regimes in place: That is completely irrelevant as to whether you can have respect for an individual who sees the atrocities committed by the regime, and believes they are doing good by fighting it. I have a hard time thinking that a soldier in Afghanistan is thinking a lot about who put the Taliban in power, or what they personally stand to gain from the fight when they decide to go there.

        • masquenox@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Ok, I’ll try to make this simple for you:

          You already have - you will happily endorse some of the world’s most vilest people as long as they saluted a piece of colored fabric (preferably the one you worship) before doing so.

          There is absolutely no further simplification required.

          The same goes for SS soldiers running a concentration camp.

          So you are perfectly ok with them as long as their their victims was free-range? I wonder what excuses you will come up with to glorify your vaunted drone operators who perpetrate terrorism while drinking Starbucks or your CIA operatives who pay proxies to do all the rape, murder and torture for them?

          That is completely irrelevant

          It fucking absolutely isn’t - you want to wax lyrically about people dying (supposedly) to “defend their country” from the very same people said country created and helped into power. Asking questions like, “what’s in it for them?” is a far more rational response to that than appealing to propagandistic Hollywood Heroism tropes… as you are doing at the moment.

          • CapeWearingAeroplane@sopuli.xyz
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            5 months ago

            Now you’re just coming off as disingenuous. So that I won’t need to repeat myself, just read my comments and try to figure out for yourself where you can find backing for what your accusing me of instead of putting words in my mouth and purposefully misinterpreting my comments or taking individual phrases out of context.

            Take your time, I won’t be waiting up.

            • masquenox@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Now you’re just coming off as disingenuous.

              You coming face to face with the true implications of your own beliefs does not equate to any disingenuity on my part.

              War is not “honorable” combatants facing off against each other in a sterile environment as a lot of military historians try to purport - it’s slaughter. The vast majority of it’s victims aren’t even combatants. When you pretend that your preferred group of war criminals “respecting” the “other side” actually matters, are you including all the dead people that couldn’t fight back and therefore do not deserve any of this rarified “respect” of yours? Or are they just uninteresting externalities and “collateral damage” that doesn’t fit into the militaristic tropes your head has obviously been filled with?

              • CapeWearingAeroplane@sopuli.xyz
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                5 months ago

                Nah, you’re still just making up opinions you want me to have so that you can think I’m an ass. Then you’re twisting my words in order to convince yourself I’m saying something I’m not.

                It’s honestly kind of impressive that you’re able to go from “I respect people who are willing to risk their own well being in order to protect others, without care for personal gain.” to what you just wrote. Like… that requires some pretty heavy handed misinterpretation.

                • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  you want me to have so that you can think I’m an ass.

                  I don’t think you’re an ass.

                  It’s honestly kind of impressive that you’re able to go from “I respect people who are willing to risk their own well being in order to protect others, without care for personal gain.”

                  Nope. Not impressive at all. Merely the result of not putting people on a pedestal simply because the narratives you have spun in your own head about them conforms to the tenets of militarism and nationalism that you have been feeding yourself.

                  It requires a minimum of interrogation to come apart and it’s implications laid bare.

                  • CapeWearingAeroplane@sopuli.xyz
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                    5 months ago

                    You’re making arguments to attack positions I’m not trying to defend, and you seem completely unaware that you’re missing the mark.

                    I’ve repeatedly tried to clarify this for you, but the way you’re blatantly ignoring my actual position, and instead making up proxy opinions that you ascribe to me and find it easier to argue against makes me think you’re either a troll or a pigeon. Either way arguing with you is rather pointless when you’d rather make up what you think my opinion is, and argue against that, than try to assess a position I’m actually willing to defend.

          • ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            lol spicy

            also: bwahaha! you think “liberal” is a put down of some kind? like caring about other people is something to be ashamed of? What kind of egocentric narcissistic psychopath are you?

            • masquenox@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              like caring about other people is something to be ashamed of?

              Did you liberals suddenly start caring about anything except preserving your precious status quo? When?

                • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  Listen closely, as I am about to do the job your history teachers obviously failed to do, and I’m about to do it for free.

                  There is no such thing as a cohesive “conservative” ideology.

                  The world you exist in? It’s liberalism all the way down.

                  You want to check, liberal? Easy.

                  Do you believe in private property? Funny that - so do the (so-called) “conservatives.”

                  Do you fetishize rule of law? Funny that - so do the (so-called) “conservatives.”

                  Do you absolutely worship the concept of the liberal nation state?

                  And so forth and so forth…

                  They are you, liberal - they worship the same absurdities you do. It’s just the operational details you actually disagree upon.

      • SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works
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        5 months ago

        After reviewing their comment history, I think Masquenox has strong controversial opinions and a bellicose attitude, but is not a troll.

        • JacksonLamb@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          After reviewing their modlog history, I think Masquenox displays a level of emotional incontinence that is effectively the same as trolling.

          • SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works
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            5 months ago

            lol putting that up on the shelf with ‘verbal incontinence’, I like it.

            I do set a line between ‘cantankerous’ and ‘troll’ more leniently along the annoyance scale than others. I say let the dork be a dork, not everyone has social skills.

            • JacksonLamb@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              I do see what you mean. I think when a dork engages in repeated personal attacks they cross the line for me regardless of their intent.

              It’s a philosophical question akin to Baudrillard’s “simulate a robbery” idea.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      This take just baffles me… you can disapprove of a war, and still respect people willing to put their life on the line for something they believe is right.

      A Toast to the Troops… All the troops. Both Sides.

      You can respect someone for sacrificing themselves without agreeing with them about what they’re sacrificing themselves for.

      RIP to Sgt. Rufus “Baby Ears” McGuffin. He died doing what he loved. Ripping the ears of babies and putting them on a big necklace that he would wear around camp.

      • CapeWearingAeroplane@sopuli.xyz
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        5 months ago

        “All the troops, both sides” is half my point when pointing out that enemy combatants historically have often held respect for each other.

        Yes, I respect a combatant fighting for something they believe in that’s bigger than themselves, people not fighting for personal gain, but because they want to give someone else a better life. That’s regardless of what side they’re on- even if they’re on the side I’m actively trying to kill.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          enemy combatants historically have often held respect for each other.

          Torturing POWs to death as a form of respect

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        He died doing what he loved. Ripping the ears of babies and putting them on a big necklace that he would wear around camp.

        Just another “All American Hero,” eh?