"Progressives should not make the same mistake that Ernst Thälmann made in 1932. The leader of the German Communist Party, Thälmann saw mainstream liberals as his enemies, and so the center and left never joined forces against the Nazis. Thälmann famously said that ‘some Nazi trees must not be allowed to overshadow a forest’ of social democrats, whom he sneeringly called ‘social fascists.’

After Adolf Hitler gained power in 1933, Thälmann was arrested. He was shot on Hitler’s orders in Buchenwald concentration camp in 1944."

  • jordanlund@lemmy.worldOPM
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    2 months ago

    Unfortunately, that’s not true. The Trump base is not as fractured as the Democratic base is. Voting 3rd party, statistically, ONLY helps Trump.

    A 3rd party will not, cannot win a Presidential election, so Progressives who would otherwise vote for Harris, but instead back a loser like Stein or West are removing their vote from Harris, which has the exact same effect as +1 for Trump.

    See here:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/11/robert-reich-third-party-candidates-will-help-trump-win

    "Just 44,000 votes out of more than 10m cast in Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin – less than half of 1% – were the difference between the Biden presidency and a tie in the electoral college that would have thrown the election to the House of Representatives, and hence to Trump.

    If candidates from No Labels, the Green party and the People’s party peel off just 15% of the anti-Trump vote from Biden, and Trump’s base stays with him, Trump would win all five swing states comfortably and return to the Oval Office."

    • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
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      2 months ago

      “Not true”? What part are you refuting? Are you saying that they count non-Trump votes as Trump votes?

      Would you agree with me that if no one voted for Trump, he would not win?

      • TachyonTele@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        You’re living in a fantasy. In real life where the rest of us are, a lot of people will be voting for Trump. And yes, any misguided third party vote is a vote for Trump.

        Did you even read what this post is?

        • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          Yes, I read the article.

          So, just to be clear: A progressive who doesn’t vote, or who votes in the general election for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. or Cornel West or Jill Stein — or whoever No Labels puts up as a candidate — is voting for Donald Trump.

          This is precisely the lie I am referencing in my original comment.

          I am tired of people blaming voters who didn’t vote for the fascist being blamed for the fascist winning. Blame those who actually voted for the fascist.

          • TachyonTele@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            Why do you think no one is blaming people that vote for him? Absolutely no one has ever said anything like that.

            • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              I did not mean to imply that no one is. But those who did not vote for him are not responsible for him winning, and should carry no blame.

              • TachyonTele@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                I can’t talk to you anymore, I’m sorry but you refuse to learn. People like you helped get us in this mess 8 years ago.

              • TachyonTele@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                am tired of people blaming voters who didn’t vote for the fascist being blamed for the fascist winning. Blame those who actually voted for the fascist.

                I did not mean to imply that no one is.

                Textbook definition of bad faith arguments.

          • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            You’re overlooking the fact that it isn’t the quantity of votes trump has, it’s the quantity of votes that trump has COMPARED to the quantity of votes Harris has.

            It is no matter if trump has 100 or 101 votes or any other number, in isolation.

            It matters if trump has 100 and Harris has 99.

            Especially if 5 people stay home, who would otherwise have voted Harris.

            Sure, they didn’t vote for trump. They aren’t Trumpers. But their behavior directly caused Harris to lose. Therefore their actions, in a constrained system, resulted in trump winning.

            It’s their ACTION not their VOTE specifically.

            • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              I’m not overlooking anything, I’m disagreeing with the framing. If Harris has 99 votes and Trump had 0, Harris wins.

              • TachyonTele@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                I love how you think your expertise in math a five year old would say some how makes your point valid, instead of just looking dumb.

              • TachyonTele@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                In what world do you believe Trump will have 0 votes? The only framing you care about is a fairytale.

          • mashbooq@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            We do blame those who actually vote for the fascist. We also blame those who effectively vote for the fascist by not voting for the only actual alternative. Your vote is not about you; its about the system you’re in. Making material change means working with what you have, instead of voting in a way to preserve a personal aesthetic.

      • jordanlund@lemmy.worldOPM
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        2 months ago

        I’m saying the candidate isn’t “Not Trump”.

        If Trump has 47% of the vote, and you allow the “Not Trump” majority to be divided among 3 or 4 people, Trump wins.

        Only one person can beat Trump, the Democratic candidate. Voting for anyone else only helps Trump.

        We don’t have an Presidential election that goes “Well, OK, nobody got 50%+1 so knock out everyone but the top two and do it again…”

        • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          I’m well aware of how the election works. You did not answer my most important question.

          Would you agree with me that if no one voted for Trump, then Trump would not win?