- cross-posted to:
- flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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This is kind of tangential, but I wish people would make distinction between Marxism and Leninism. Marx didn’t say shit about the vanguard party. Imo, we can reject Leninism without having to reject Marxism.
Also don’t waste your time arguing with me, because I am woefully uneducated and stupid, but I can only work with what I have, ya know?
TBF even Leninism is a stark departure from what MLs believe.
If you look at the original plans for the Soviet Union, Lenin was basically planning a Syndicalist Representative-Democracy. Problem was that Lenin got too bogged down in crushing any chance that said democracy would vote against itself, and then Stalin just decided to go full corporate town with it.
100%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makhnovshchina#Defeat_(November_1920_–_August_1921)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_rebellion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Days
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Cuba#Post-revolutionary_period
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_China#Anarchism_in_the_People’s_Republic
Now, we wait for cries of “NATOpedia!” and “CIApedia!”
I don’t think you need to provide sources or preemptively defend wikipedia.
In my experience the kind of communists who want to shoot all the anarchists have a detailed knowledge of the history of shooting anarchists and talk openly about the fact that they’ll shoot all the anarchists.
Also anarchists tend to be pretty aware of what happens when you oppose state power.
In my experience the kind of communists who want to shoot all the anarchists …
You’re confusing Communists with communists. They’re very different. Anarchists tend to be communist. Therefore if communists were shooting anarchists they’d be shooting themselves. Anarchists want a classless stateless society based on Mutual Aid. Which is exactly what actual communist want. Communists on the other hand are a heavily class based society. With an overarching crushing state that commands everything. Destroying and slaughtering any dissent against the Vanguard party and it’s oppression of the proletariat.
Communists are in no way communist. They are a completely different ideology. Often referred to as ml or Marxist leninist. And Lemmy is rife with them. They would get away imprison or Slaughter any communist or anarchist who spoke out against them or their perceived Revolution
Most people do not distinguish words by capitalization. I agree with what you’re saying but most people don’t care about the difference and so I don’t really either. The only word we(anarchists) should be fighting for is anarchy, and it’s forms. We don’t need any others. Democracy, socialism, communism, even if we manage to get people to understand our definitions, in an anarchic society they won’t matter so we should let go of them. Anarchy encompasses communism, as class and wealth are both archic structures. There is no need for more terms, and the effort to clean them is too costly.
Also even though restructuring the text got rid of it at one point I had the word communism as the first word in a sentence leading me to capitalize it. Another reason why distinguishing between words by capitalization is a bad practice.
Thats why leftist unity consistently fails, still better then “libertarian” unity
I was explaining what the Libertarian Party wanted to my daughter and she said she didn’t understand why anyone would want a country like that. I told her that virtually no one else does either, which is why Libertarians almost never get elected.
They want a lot of horrible things and a lot of good things. Obviously the capitalist parts are disgusting but at least they dont support genocide (which sadly in this year is extremely rare).
They support a genocide of the poor. One that involves letting them starve to death due to the total lack of social services.
Thats to be expected in American politics, I was referring to the fact that at least that dont support the military or funding Israel. Also genocide of the poor is entirely the fault of capitalism and you cant vote that away.
“As long as they don’t support the genocide I care about, the genocide they would allow to happen because capitalism is fine.” Gotcha. You do realize that their idea of capitalism where that happens is only what they want, hence my point.
Very few other people are saying there should be absolutely zero social services and near zero taxation. Just them. That is just death to the poor.
You cannot use a nation state to fix problems with the nation state. Marxism in general has real “the free market will regulate itself” vibes.
I’m generally sympathetic to Marxism in general, but that’s not the main thrust of the meme so I’ll just say “Marxists aren’t inherently tankies” and leave it at that.
I suppose the question is how do you go from state to no state in one fell swoop?
A functional stateless society would be a generational undertaking not an overnight revolution, anarchists who believe otherwise are in the above picture.
I mean that sounds just like, Marxism-Leninism withering of the state kinda line really so that’s what I get confused on unless you’re saying that MLs are fundamentally anarchists in that they strive for a stateless society (eventually)
Typically, the idea of Marxists is to use the state apparatus to dismantle the state apparatus in the end.
Typically, the idea of anarchists is to build parallel structures outside of the state apparatus until the state apparatus is no longer able to resist the alternate power base deciding to dissolve the state.
Marxism doesn’t call on the state to do that. That’s leninism. Marxism is highly unobjectionable. The problem is how we get there. Marx himself spoke of an evolution over a long period of time in Society to arrive there. However humans desire immediate gratification. And thus that was unsatisfactory for most people. Which is where Engles, Lenin and others enter the picture. Who thought they could jump start communism/marxism using the very thing that kept communism/Marxism from being possible. The state.
