• prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    49
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    3 months ago

    See here’s what’s really really funny, people over and over again say “man if the vegan people who were trying to convince me could just not be gigantic assholes about it then maybe it would be easier to join their community”

    And then you come along and are a gigantic asshole about it and prove the entire point.

    Super solid representation, 5/7, perfection.

    • mods_mum@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      3 months ago

      Having a reasonable discussion with these people is like trying to play a game of chess with a pigeon. They’ll topple all the pieces, shit on the board and claim victory.

      • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        10
        ·
        edit-2
        3 months ago

        Gonna copy large chunks of my last comment because no ones there to stop me.

        This isn’t a debate like how should we reduce plastic accumulation or the carcinogenic properties of red meat. Not supporting slavery and murder should be the norm, not something that needs to be argued for at length. Being vegan is not doing something good, but not being vegan is doing something evil. This is our position. If someone can’t accept that what their doing is evil but needs to be asked nicely not to kill the screaming orphan who never got to meet his mom because we wanted to steal her milk then they won’t accept that it is an actual real evil that is taking place. It will remain a theoretical. But there really is a room where these orphans are brought to be murdered. A person murdering them. And a mother who screamed bitterly over losing their newborn. It is a real evil and being polite about it masks the horror taking place not to mention is completely insincere since we aren’t interested in debating or in weighing pros and cons. It’s a horrific injustice and we will talk about it as such. There is an evil inherent to not being vegan. Fuck the non-vegans.

          • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            3 months ago

            Here is another one: That meat on your plate comes from an animal that could feel. It had a whole life full of feelings and dreams. It might’ve liked some food but disliked other, it probably had friends, it had a mom and a dad, it was loved. Then they killed it, shipped it, you cooked it and ate it.

    • davepleasebehave@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      3 months ago

      thing is, it’s a philosophy of empathy and compassion. you don’t really join a.commmunity. there are no V cards I’m afraid.

    • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      45
      ·
      3 months ago

      If you need people to be nice to you to convince you, you care more about appearances than the argument. If people being rude stops you from acting on something you actually believe in you won’t last a month as a vegan.

      Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs “special” catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won’t last.

      The first lesson every vegan needs to learn is: there are no rewards and no one will compliment you. You are doing this out of your own conviction and not for anyone else.

      • benignintervention@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        40
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        3 months ago

        This is precisely the circlejerking mentioned in the meme. Whether true or not, the community presents itself as unwelcoming and self-aggrandizing. These are not traits that easily convince people to listen to the cause.

        • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          34
          ·
          3 months ago

          There’s nothing to listen to, either you believe animal ag is horrendous and unethical and act on it or you don’t. That’s it. No pretty pleases are going to convince someone they have to give up their beloved steak and cheese for nothing in return.

                • naught@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  13
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  What’s more apt? Demand? I literally never see a “militant” vegan emerge anywhere unless in a thread like this which demonizes a (diverse) group of people for giving a shit about animals and this planet. I think that most people who give thought to this problem will eventually realize that they aren’t primal hunters capable of taking the life of animals, let alone a new animal or more every day.

                  • ObliviousEnlightenment@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    ·
                    3 months ago

                    Two things. First, the fact most people arent hunting the animals thenselves really isnt shocking. Human society thrives on specialization. We dont farm or forage our own veggies either, we dont engineer our own cars, we dont construct our own houses. Thats kinda just how civilization works. Its not uniquely symptomatic of “carnists”.

                    Secondly, you severely underestimate people. Primitive tribes, even if they were less effective at securing large amounts of meat, still hunted without any moral compunctions about the matter. Evolution is a slow thing, people who did that were just like us in any way that matters. Its not unreasonable to assume most people would adjust if you strip away the automation of society. Desperate people resort to cannibalism for goodness sake, I wouldnt put hunting past them.

          • Aphelion@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            3 months ago

            Right, we get it, but if you tried attracting people to veganism with amazing recipes, and annecdotes of how much healthier you feel, people might come have a conversation and try making some vegan food. Instead these communities drive anyone non-vegan right out the door.

            What’s the expression? Honey will catch more flies?

            • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              3 months ago

              Reformism doesn’t work. People that are vegan because it’s “actually really good food” or looking for applause for “saving the planet” stop being vegan once it becomes too inconvenient. Because their mindset is that they are doing something good and you can stop doing good things or balance them out with other good deeds and there is an inherent expectation of a reward for being good.

              Not supporting slavery and murder however should be the norm, not something that feels like a burden. Being vegan is not doing something good, but not being vegan is doing something evil. This is our position. If someone can’t accept that what their doing is evil but needs to be asked nicely not to kill the screaming orphan who never got to meet his mom because we wanted to steal her milk then they won’t accept that it is an actual real evil that is taking place. It will remain a theoretical. But there really is a room where these orphans are brought to be murdered. A person murdering them. And a mother who screamed bitterly over losing their child. It is a real evil and being polite about it masks the horror taking place not to mention is completely insincere since we aren’t interested in debating or in weighing pros and cons. This isn’t a debate like how should we reduce plastic accumulation or the carcinogenic properties of red meat. There is an evil inherent to not being vegan. Fuck the non-vegans.

                • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  4
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  My comment poking fun at the ridiculousness of double standard in tone policing got removed for trolling so let me be more explicit:

                  There were already very rude jokes and comments about vegans in this thread. Rudeness against vegans is the norm and played for laughs, but god forbid a vegan returns the favor then suddenly everyone is crying for more civility.

                  Also sincerely held beliefs should be communicated sincerely. No ones going to believe the dude that says “I think what you’re taking part in is a horrific injustice carried out on an industrial scale but to each their own I guess. Lets agree to disagree.”

          • Mjpasta710@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            3 months ago

            You’re a breatharian? No corpse munching from you.

            Are you pure enough that you feed the bacteria in your body without suffering?

          • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            15
            ·
            3 months ago

            while i think you are actually starting to violate community rules here, i just wanna say i think your conduct up to this point has been fine.

      • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        13
        ·
        3 months ago

        Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs “special” catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won’t last.

        this should be on a billboard.