If you’re out there working and didn’t go to college, Joe Biden’s forgiving student loans, and you’re paying for them,” the Republican senator said on Fox News Sunday.
OK, so my pennies, which amount to a rounding error, are making it so someone else can get their head above water? What is the bad/scary/dictator part?? They are so afraid of education, as the second you can do critical thinking their whole fear mongering platform of lies falls apart.
First, an educated populous brings the entire economy up. It creates new markets, new fields and industries, and more opportunities for everyone. It also takes a large chuck of the workforce into offices, labs, and around the world instead of competing with you for your machining job at the factory, which would devalue your role and result in lowering your wage, if you got the job at all.
Second, the only reason for the massive amounts of student debt is due to universities massively inflating the cost of an education to milk the government of their federal student loans. This doesn’t address that directly, but it applies pressure on the government to reign in these bloated tuition and book costs that universities are pushing.
Third, if we’re so afraid Joe the Plumber and the rest of the Working Class might have to help his fellow man with 3 cents of his annual tax rate, then increase the tax on the wealthy controlling class to cover it instead. The same tax bill will mean waaaaay less to them.
Edit: for clarification, that was a rebuttal to Graham’s comment, not yours, OP
Second, the only reason for the massive amounts of student debt is due to universities massively inflating the cost of an education to milk the government of their federal student loans.
I can’t speak for everywhere, but that’s not true for my alma mater. Tuition has been rising because of a lack of state funding. 20 years ago, state funds made up 2/3 of the University budget. Now it’s 1/3. The difference has to come from somewhere.
Go to an in-state school. Prices are lower. Go to a community college to take your desired program’s prerequisites and transfer to a state university. Or just finish up a degree at a community college.
I don’t know about your specific university, but you should also compare how much their tuition and fees have increased in that 20 years and before. Average rise in tuition and fees across the board in just the last 20 years has been 179%. Adjusted for inflation, the average annual tuition and fees at public universities have nearly quadrupled since 1969, from $2440 to $9349. They’ve also more than tripled at private universities in that same time frame, from $10,636 to $32,769. Again, that’s adjusted for inflation. Has educating people really become 3 or 4 times more costly in the last 55 years, or have they realized they can charge more, make more pointless cosmetic improvements to campuses to entice students, and line the pockets their boards of trustees and presidents, some of whom make multi-million dollar salaries?
Your second paragraph is good advice though. I tell people the same thing.
In 1986, my mom paid $386 ($1,106 in 2024) in tuition for a quarter at the University of Washington. In 2015, I paid around $3,700 ($4902 in 2024) for a quarter at UW.
In 1986, UW got $440 million dollars from the state. That’s $1.2 billion in 2024. In 2015, UW got $644 million from the state. That’s $0.8 billion today.
It’s hard to find enrollment data for some reason, but there were less than 30,000 students at UW in the late 80s. In 2015, that figure was closer to 55,000.
Using inflation adjusted figures, the state was contributing $41,000 per student in 1986 compared to $14,500 in 2015. Adding in yearly tuition, the total cost was $44,700 in 1986. In 2015, that’s $29,300 per student.
Importantly, this analysis leaves out private contributions to the university’s budget which makes up a large portion of its funds. However, those funds are usually restricted in how they can be spent.
Most of the buildings on UW’s campus were built in the 50s or 60s. There were some that were from the 20s and 30s or older. Forget cosmetics, most of those need renovations just to remain usable. There were thousands of good, usable computers in the libraries that were always in use. Keeping that fleet running is an expense that just wasn’t around 30+ years ago. Labs equipment has gotten better and more expensive. I used a $100,000 high speed camera when I was in school. My mom sure didn’t have access to that.
Based on my quick, back of the envelope math, education has not gotten 3 to 4 times more expensive, but the state has been contributing less and less money to fund it.
And yet UW president is pulling in over 1.1 million a year. And I doubt she’s the only overpaid one in the university administration.
According to the state salary database, there are about 3 dozen UW employees who make more than $500,000 a year in 2022 (the most recent year published). A few are administrative staff, many are coaches for sports (which is very dumb), and a few are professors.
Their total salaries sum to $32 million, which is a lot. But when you divide that across the total number of students, it comes out to about $580 per student per year. So even if you stopped paying these people, tuition would only go down about 5%.
That’s assuming that these staff members don’t bring any value, which is not a good assumption. Many of these highly paid people would be highly compensated in this private sector–for example the manager of UW’s investments makes $1 million per year–so rightly or wrongly, the university must pay very high to retain them.
As I said before, the university has received $400 million less from the state (adjusted for inflation) today than it did in the 1980s. The expense of highly paid staff is a drop in the bucket compared to the drop in state funding.
I don’t eat corn either. Or drive a hybrid. Or have a child with food insecurity. I have never been impacted by a flood or hurricane. I won’t qualify for medicaid and my Social Security will be less than I have contributed. We could do this dumb line of thinking all day.
They want people like myself to get angry at this because “I made the decision to not go into debt because of the debt part and these people without care for the outcome just jumped into taking on debt and now want us responsible people to cover their tab.”
It’s supposed to play on some sense of “fairness” and “I played by the rules, why do you get to just make new rules for yourself to succeed while I’m stuck in a worse life because I stuck to the original rules?” It works with a lot of people. Even I’m kinda bitter about it, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want people to get educated without going into debt. I just wish I was born 10 years later than I was so I could benefit too!! :P
I’m out here working and no one paid for my college but me (well, and …). Dammit, why are we still making people do this? Where can I sign up to help get next generations off to a good start without crippling debt?
That’s the problem though. They want none of their pennies to go to anyone else for anything. Loosely they might pay for someone else’s whatever if it’s their choice, or maybe if there’s groveling involved. They use mental excuses like “someone that’s lazy, doesn’t meet my made-up standards, doesn’t look, speak, or think like me”… or any other metric by which they subjectively view others to judge whether or not those others get their money. Yet somehow they expect roads, water, schools and all the other services that keep their town and state to miraculously keep functioning and not look like a decrepit village on a dirt road in a destitute nation.
Agreed! Paying for YOUR degrees is DANGEROUS! Paying for Billionaire’s Yachts via Warfare is AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM!
This despicable fuck is aging, and the future can’t come fast enough.
Just waiting for the day. We’re gonna have a lot of parties to throw in the next 5-10 years.
😠🫸 Millions to help poor students
😃👉 Billions in bailouts to the rich
They make more money on average so pay more taxes.
How is that a bad thing?
Because if we help them pay off those predatory loans, they’re less desperate and less likely to accept a bullshit job to avoid starvation and homelessness. Can’t have people having options, like those afforded to educated folks.
They don’t want people moving out of red states, like South Carolina. Too bad for him.
Don’t accept his premise. It’s completely incorrect. Statistics show that the vast majority of people getting student loan relief are not ultra wealthy, or even mildly wealthy, or Wealthy by any definition. Wealthy people don’t need student loans. It’s overwhelmingly people of lower middle class background or currently working in lower middle class jobs will receive student loan debt relief. People either just above just at or just below the poverty line.
If you go to post secondary education you’re going to on average make more money then if you don’t.
If you make more money you’ll pay more taxes the rest of your life so it’s a cheap investment is my point.
Yes that’s nice, but I’m saying don’t concede his premise. You seem to be doing that. You can have your point while the same time acknowledging he’s lying.
You’re not understanding my point.
They are
Neither are you, then.
Yeah. Cuz the next step is creating as public school system that includes 2 years of technical school…
and that’d be socialist.
and socialism is dangerous to his constituents.
(if you’re not buying him off, you’re not his constituent.)
This is dangerous to our democracy.
“THE ONLY THING THAT HELPS THE ECONOMY IS TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH!!!”, yelled Graham.
It’s beyond dangerous to the GOP to have a successful and educated society that isn’t crumbling under debts.
Bail out banks: Good.
Bail out poor/middle-class: Bad!
The more people get educated the more people will realize he is a complete twat.
The pilot fish is still circling Trump.
I agree with Lindsey Graham, all higher education should be paid for, including living expenses while people go to trade school.
It’s only fair. America will pay for you to become a welder, an artist, or a welder who makes art with welding.
Yes exactly!! We should stop giving billionaires massive tax breaks on their yachts and private jets give them to ordinary citizens for higher education.
Progressives: “Reducing our $1.75T student debt balance by a $10B is simply too little and arriving too late to dig the current generation out of this debt crisis.”
Conservatives: “Biden’s debt forgiveness plan murders innocent little white babies.”
big fucking sigh
As someone who went to a private university and always believed it a superior choice, fuck that noise. A few states have started offering free instate tuition again, at public universities.
Let’s change course here, let’s steer this baby over to the public side……
How about
- all public funding goes to free tuition at public universities/vo-tech for everyone that wants it
- if you insist on going to private, you can do private funding. No loans for you. No grants for you
The bigger private unis already have endowments big enough to coast on indefinitely. Cornell has $9B for a student body of 25k. Harvard has a $51B trust fund for a student body of 30k. MIT has $24B across 12k students… When schools are this obscenely rich, tuition is a drop in the bucket.
Plus they get tons of donations from stupid alumni.
